On Monday, more than a hundred retired generals and admirals called for repeal of the military’s “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy on gays so they can serve openly.
“As is the case with Great Britain, Israel, and other nations that allow gays and lesbians to serve openly, our service members are professionals who are able to work together effectively despite differences in race, gender, religion, and sexuality,” the officers wrote.
The military discharged about 12,340 people between 1994 and 2007 for violating the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy. The number peaked in 2001 at 1,273, but began dropping off sharply after the Sept. 11 attacks.
Last year, 627 military personnel were discharged under the policy.
Can you even believe we’re still discharging people from the military for being openly gay?
OUTRAGEOUS. It just feels like an anachronism.
Get this dealt with, President-elect Obama!
Honestly, I had a family member who “came out” after 20 YEARS of service…and was given a dishonorable discharge, no benes, and it destroyed his life. Sad that good American soldiers who WANT to serve, who HAVE served, and who are STILL serving can not get out from under the stigma. You are soldiers in the military, not hair stylists, nor any other stoopid personifications of the media, just soldiers, protecting MY rights to be free and to read these sites and to put my little two cents in, THANK YOU GAY and STRAIGHT SOLDIERS!!!!! I do not want to serve in the military, I am thank ful you do. I will do my part and perpetuate the southern stereo type I have been labled with my life…shoe shopper…and sometimes a gossip. ;)
I don’t really care to know if someone is gay. Hell, I don’t care to know who is straight. Serving in the military is a job…you wouldn’t bring your personal shit to the office in some financial district, so why should you bring your personal shit to your military job?
That’s insane, especially considering how desperate the military is for soldiers.
Well you know, with bullets flying everywhere, cars blowing up, and limbs spattered all over, it’s absolutely imperative to know if Jake as a crush on Tim.
it’s absolutely mind-blowing that this kind of discrimination is still government policy. i just think ‘how DARE they!?” ugh
It is outrageous and embarrassing too. “Hey look world, my country is afraid of homosexuals” :(
It’s not right for anyone to have to hide their relationships with people. I agree that personal business should not be brought into the work place but that doesn’t mean you should have to hide it either. If gay and lesbian soldiers cannot talk about their relationships, straight ones shouldn’t be allowed to either. And that’s just as ridiculous as “Don’t ask, don’t tell.”
DAMN, you’re having a slow news day, aren’t you?
There’s a bigger military cultural problem that has to be addressed before DADT can be repealed and everyone be comfortable with it – the fact that sexual harassment and rape of women within the military is not uncommon and is swept under the rug. Until the stigma and repercussions of reporting inappropriate sexual advances are removed, it’s going to be a tough road to repeal DADT because male soldiers could be subjected to the same treatment they’ve been dishing out to women for years. With DADT, a male soldier puts the moves on an unwilling male soldier, he can get booted for being gay without any repercussions on the victim’s military career. A male soldier puts the moves on an unwilling female soldier, not so much.
That probably makes no sense, I’m hungover and can’t put together a coherent sentence, but I know it’s something I can explain when I’m not hung over, so there.
Obama won’t do anything. He doesn’t believe in gay marriage either.
Beet… I spent 7 years in the military and disagree with the policy too. HOWEVER, my experience with discharges (it was extensive as it was part of my job) was that soldiers and sailors that were discharged as a result of the policy were using it as an excuse to get out and the majority, if not all of them, were not even really gay. As a matter of fact, the one instance where one actual gay person was outed, his command liked him so much they arranged for him to go to another command where his sexual orientation was not known.
The policy should be changed, but the data and statistics are EXTREMELY inaccurate and don’t paint an accurate picture of servicepeople.
Erin – I get that you don’t care to know but this profession is, in many cases, unlike your average 9 to 5. Active duty military members are often in very close quarters over a long period of time, at times separated from loved ones. It’s unfair and wrong that they should be required to hide such a fundamental part of who they are lest they face punishment.
TVF – agree the essence of what you say, but I have to believe that if DADT was repealed it would go one step farther towards everyone behaving in a mature way around sexuality overall. A part of a positive culture shift that would in turn impact sexual misconduct of all kinds.
Down Unda – even more reason to do away with it if it is being abused.
pathetic really, a cause for embarrasment for the US. Or an easy ‘Win’ policy for the new guy!
Well, I think neither women nor homosexuals should be discriminated against. No raping, no gay-bashing. Simple new policy.
because many straight american men are not comfortable with their own sexuality and are threatened by gay men. i don’t care how much y’all deny it, you know it’s true. closet cases.
what I think is most unfair is that when the amount of enlistments sharply dropped, they considered a draft, a draft! While there are many willing gay men who want to fight for this country! Its ridiculous! They want to FORCE people to join the military while there are plenty of men who just have a diffrent sexual preference than most who want to fight.
UGH so lame. fine, whatever. I don’t want my precious gays getting killed anyway. God knows if I were a gay male (or female) I would never fight for a country that still discriminated against me because HOW I WAS BORN
it’s a shame, because obviously these people care a lot more about their country then dumb straight people like me that would NEVER go to war.
ugh ugh ugh “don’t ask don’t tell” should switch to “don’t care”
IF I was in the military, I just don’t think I would care if a gay person saved my life or a fucking straight one. GOD.
Again… all the information being put out there is self-serving and wrong. (I apologize in advance for the long post.)
I will say at the outset, I agree that the “don’t ask, don’t tell” policy is crap and should be repealed… I said that when I was in the military. I’m not a spokesperson for the military nor am I an advocate for anyone. But I can tell you from my experience:
1. To the person that alleges that their “friend” came out after 20 years and received a dishonorable discharge – bull. First, the DADT discharge is administrative, NOT punitive. As a result, the worst discharge that a person discharged as a result of DADT is an OTH (other than honorable). Absent a criminal act and subsequent courts-martial, nobody would be dishonorably discharged… let alone a 20 year veteran, as a result of the DADT policy. In my 7 years in, the only discharges based on the DADT policy were General Discharges (non-punitive) and they went to individuals that sought out discharge. They would have received “honorable” discharges, but for they had a history of misconduct and it was obvious they were using the DADT policy to get out (some even admitted it afterwards as sort of their way to say “fuck you” to the military on the way out the door.)
2. Most, if not all, senior commanders do not want to get into their soldiers and sailors private bedrooms. There are rules in the MCM (Manual for Courts-Martial) violated by service members that these commanders regularly do not pursue. For example, in the military “sodomy” is illegal and defined as oral or anal intercourse. As a result, a military member could be technically imprisoned for receiving a blowjob from their wife. The reality is, this is never charged… the only time this would appear on a charge sheet at a courts-martial is if there was a sexual assault of some sort.
3. My own doctor, an 0-6 (one rank below an Admiral or General) had a rainbow flag in his office, lived with another man who was his “friend,” and was obviously gay. A damn good doctor, a damn good officer, and a damn good guy. He wasn’t pursued or outed, and was well-respected. I also had a commanding officer (another 0-6) who was obviously a lesbian, lived with her “friend,” went to certain events, etc. and was a damn good officer… and nobody disturbed her. It wasn’t a witch hunt.
4. I was involved in an investigation regarding child porn. We seized computers and analyzed them for evidence of illicit photographs and other such materials. During the investigation was stumbled upon gay porn that was downloaded by one of the junior officers at the command. As utilizing a government computer to access porn (straight or gay) is a violation, we provided that information to the junior officers commanding officer. The commanding officer (who is the prosecuting authority for his command) opted not to pursue charges because the junior officer was a good officer and although punishing him for misusing a computer would not be a career ender, doing so for gay porn would have resulted in his discharge. The commanding officer didn’t want him to be discharged.
I could go on with examples forever. My point is, YES, the policy needs to change. However, throwing out numbers and statistics in support of this (and condemning the military) is irresponsible and doesn’t accurately reflect what is going on. Those numbers don’t account for those in the military that abuse the policy to avoid service in Iraq or Afghanistan, or because they just don’t want to live a military life any longer. Those numbers also don’t account for the activists that join the military and then seek a high-profile discharge to bring light to the issue (yes, it happens.)
It is a policy from the executive branch and it’s disturbing to see comments generalizing military personnel as homophobes and intolerant. That’s not the case at all. Anyhow, I’ll get off my soapbox. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, right or wrong… that’s what I and my fellow service members fight to preserve.
Down Unda.
I am straight woman, married, children and all of that hullaballoooo…
But I think I may want to have your babies.
AAAAAAAAmazing.
seriously?
my dad is in the military, and I fully agree with this. I am all for gays! But, not in the military. If you’re gay, just dont say anything about it. If you want to serve, don’t say you’re gay. Its as simple as that. with all the money that is cut from the military, they do not have the money to spend on making new bunkers and dorms for the the military personel that is gay.
get over it.
um, who are the ‘they’ who were considering a draft?
i’m with saucy on this one. except i am not married >wink
@Saucy & joan:
I’m guessing neither of you are near Australia? Damn my rotten luck!!!! ;-)
Thank you for your kind words though!
Maybe you can talk to some of these Aussie women on my behalf and vouch for me! :-) ha ha.
Down Unda has convinced me.
Good post down unda. I was in the military when the whole DADT thing came about. While it was happening and afterwards, we were like “Uh, so nothing has changed?”
Before it was made official, there were plenty of gay people in the military. Everybody knew they were but they just didn’t talk about it the way the guys would talk about their shore leave in the Phillipines.
In fifty years people are gonna look back at us in much the same way we look back at white Americans from fifty years ago (no, not just the Southern ones).
I am a gay soldier serving under the don’t ask don’t tell policy and have been serving for the past 4 years, I have been deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan…..and I think the policy is bullshit, I have had 3 good friends kicked out because of it…and all 3 of them were better soldiers than most “straight” soldiers….but what do I know I’ve only got 4 years in and 2 years deployed…
TO ALL CIVILIANS WITH NEGITIVE OPINIONS: continue to sit on your couch and bitch about how things should be ran…don’t make comments on how the don’t ask don’t tell policy should stay in affect, unless you actually can back it by experience….now stop wasting your time reading my blog cause your fixing to be late for shift change at mcdonalds you ignorant bitch